Discussion:
[PLUG] Jerky Mouse
John Jason Jordan
2018-09-28 16:59:41 UTC
Permalink
The mouse on my desktop (less than a year old) is a Logitech M185
wireless USB mouse. It jerks, and extremely slowly, that is, you move
it and nothing happens for a couple minutes. And when it does finally
move it's not exactly where you wanted it, so repeat the operation. It
can take ten minutes to click on something, and the clicks are also very
slow.

I have tried everything I could think of:

o Swapping the mouse with another identical mouse known
to be working fine, including a brand new one.
o Moving the USB receiver gizmo to different USB ports

I also opened Task Manager and note that nothing is taking more than a
couple percent of the CPU and almost all of the 16GB of RAM is free.
There also appears to be no disk activity.

Suggestions?
Jason Barnett
2018-09-28 17:31:47 UTC
Permalink
In my experience, this type of problem has always been either a low battery
in the mouse, or RF interference.
Try a wired mouse. If it still jerks then it is a computer/software issue,
if it works fine then it is likely an RF issue.
Post by John Jason Jordan
The mouse on my desktop (less than a year old) is a Logitech M185
wireless USB mouse. It jerks, and extremely slowly, that is, you move
it and nothing happens for a couple minutes. And when it does finally
move it's not exactly where you wanted it, so repeat the operation. It
can take ten minutes to click on something, and the clicks are also very
slow.
o Swapping the mouse with another identical mouse known
to be working fine, including a brand new one.
o Moving the USB receiver gizmo to different USB ports
I also opened Task Manager and note that nothing is taking more than a
couple percent of the CPU and almost all of the 16GB of RAM is free.
There also appears to be no disk activity.
Suggestions?
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Russell Senior
2018-09-28 17:48:06 UTC
Permalink
One other thing might be the surface you are moving the mouse over. Unless
there is enough texture, the mouse might not register its motion. And/or,
perhaps the optical receiver is contaminated.
Post by Jason Barnett
In my experience, this type of problem has always been either a low battery
in the mouse, or RF interference.
Try a wired mouse. If it still jerks then it is a computer/software issue,
if it works fine then it is likely an RF issue.
Post by John Jason Jordan
The mouse on my desktop (less than a year old) is a Logitech M185
wireless USB mouse. It jerks, and extremely slowly, that is, you move
it and nothing happens for a couple minutes. And when it does finally
move it's not exactly where you wanted it, so repeat the operation. It
can take ten minutes to click on something, and the clicks are also very
slow.
o Swapping the mouse with another identical mouse known
to be working fine, including a brand new one.
o Moving the USB receiver gizmo to different USB ports
I also opened Task Manager and note that nothing is taking more than a
couple percent of the CPU and almost all of the 16GB of RAM is free.
There also appears to be no disk activity.
Suggestions?
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
John Jason Jordan
2018-10-30 01:35:48 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:31:47 -0700
Post by Jason Barnett
In my experience, this type of problem has always been either a low
battery in the mouse, or RF interference.
Try a wired mouse. If it still jerks then it is a computer/software
issue, if it works fine then it is likely an RF issue.
The problem continues, and it is very exasperating.

I have the same exact make/model mouse for my laptop which is right
next to the desktop. It works flawlessly. I have swapped the mice and
whichever one is connected to the laptop works perfectly and the one
connected to the desktop continues its jerky behavior.

At this point it just has to be an RF problem. Unfortunately, I do not
have a wired mouse to test with, but I discovered something else that
sort of proves that it is RF interference: Both mice are Logitech M185
mice Part# 8100C5234, so I just turned off the one connected to the
laptop, et voilà! The mouse connected to the desktop started working
perfectly.

At least I have a temporary workaround, but now I need to figure out a
permanent solution. I already tried physically moving them, but
both mice need to be at hand while I am at my desk, so options are
limited and I already tried moving the receivers as far as I could
without success. Any other suggestions?
King Beowulf
2018-10-30 02:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Jason Jordan
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:31:47 -0700
Post by Jason Barnett
In my experience, this type of problem has always been either a low
battery in the mouse, or RF interference.
Try a wired mouse. If it still jerks then it is a computer/software
issue, if it works fine then it is likely an RF issue.
...
Post by John Jason Jordan
At this point it just has to be an RF problem. Unfortunately, I do not
have a wired mouse to test with, but I discovered something else that
sort of proves that it is RF interference: Both mice are Logitech M185
mice Part# 8100C5234, so I just turned off the one connected to the
laptop, et voilà! The mouse connected to the desktop started working
perfectly.
At least I have a temporary workaround, but now I need to figure out a
permanent solution. I already tried physically moving them, but
both mice need to be at hand while I am at my desk, so options are
limited and I already tried moving the receivers as far as I could
without success. Any other suggestions?
Did you just turn off the laptop mouse or also unplug the laptop
transceiver? This sounds like the desktop transceiver is connecting to
the laptop mouse as well as the desktop mouse.

I can't tell from the Logitech M185 product page if the nano transceiver
is one of the 'unified' types. Does is have an orange square pattern on
the transceiver?

Options:
1. If unified, see if you can find ltunify for your distro
https://lekensteyn.nl/logitech-unifying.html#ltunify

This may allow setting up the transceivers so that they only "see" one
particular mouse.

2. If not, you have 2 transceivers sending on the same 2.4GHz band. One
of the devices has to go. Try a different mouse make/model, or go wired
for the desktop

3. Build a small Faraday cage for the laptop. Unfortunately this is
also block network wifi (a security feature!).

-Ed
t***@wescottdesign.com
2018-10-30 04:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by King Beowulf
Post by John Jason Jordan
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:31:47 -0700
Post by Jason Barnett
In my experience, this type of problem has always been either a low
battery in the mouse, or RF interference.
Try a wired mouse. If it still jerks then it is a computer/software
issue, if it works fine then it is likely an RF issue.
...
Post by John Jason Jordan
At this point it just has to be an RF problem. Unfortunately, I do not
have a wired mouse to test with, but I discovered something else that
sort of proves that it is RF interference: Both mice are Logitech M185
mice Part# 8100C5234, so I just turned off the one connected to the
laptop, et voilà! The mouse connected to the desktop started working
perfectly.
At least I have a temporary workaround, but now I need to figure out a
permanent solution. I already tried physically moving them, but
both mice need to be at hand while I am at my desk, so options are
limited and I already tried moving the receivers as far as I could
without success. Any other suggestions?
Did you just turn off the laptop mouse or also unplug the laptop
transceiver? This sounds like the desktop transceiver is connecting to
the laptop mouse as well as the desktop mouse.
I can't tell from the Logitech M185 product page if the nano transceiver
is one of the 'unified' types. Does is have an orange square pattern on
the transceiver?
1. If unified, see if you can find ltunify for your distro
https://lekensteyn.nl/logitech-unifying.html#ltunify
This may allow setting up the transceivers so that they only "see" one
particular mouse.
2. If not, you have 2 transceivers sending on the same 2.4GHz band. One
of the devices has to go. Try a different mouse make/model, or go wired
for the desktop
3. Build a small Faraday cage for the laptop. Unfortunately this is
also block network wifi (a security feature!).
-Ed
I know that this comment is the essence of thread drift, but you need
to be careful with your titles. I've spent the evening being
distracted of thoughts of a mouse built out of thin sheets of dried,
smoked beef.
King Beowulf
2018-10-30 06:05:54 UTC
Permalink
On 10/29/18 9:33 PM, ***@wescottdesign.com wrote:
...snip...
I know that this comment is the essence of thread drift, but you need to
be careful with your titles.  I've spent the evening being distracted of
thoughts of a mouse built out of thin sheets of dried, smoked beef.
Intriguing. I'll have to fire up the ol' smoker and try some mouse
jerky. That is if I can find any whole after the cat gets done playing
with his mouse friends...

-Ed
Rich Shepard
2018-10-30 13:00:56 UTC
Permalink
I know that this comment is the essence of thread drift, but you need to
be careful with your titles. I've spent the evening being distracted of
thoughts of a mouse built out of thin sheets of dried, smoked beef.
And I -- briefly -- considered asking how mouse jerky compares with deer,
elk, or cow jerky. :-)

Rich
Ben Koenig
2018-10-30 19:19:31 UTC
Permalink
If anyone really wants to dig into the causes of RF interference, here is a
fun read
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.pdf

The description of a "jerky mouse" is actually very common in technical
support. What the user perceives as intermittent drop outs are typically
the result of reduced range.

Without testing I can't say that this is the problem John is having but ...

It is *extremely* common. What happens is that a USB3 capable device (any
device) will introduce RF interference on the 2.4 and 2.5GHz bands. All
USB3 ports, cables, and devices are buzzing with this noise, proportional
to the amount of data being transferred over the connection.

So a mouse with a range of 10ft will often drop to half of that, or less,
when another USB device is in use. The "Jerky mouse" occurs when the
mousepad is sitting on the edge of this range. Move too far to the right...
disappears. Move to the left, it speeds up. as you wiggle your hand trying
to make it move, the mouse repeatedly disappears and re-appears to its
wireless controller.

You don't need to build a faraday cage because Intel already did, and the
results are (IMO) fascinating.
Post by Rich Shepard
I know that this comment is the essence of thread drift, but you need to
be careful with your titles. I've spent the evening being distracted of
thoughts of a mouse built out of thin sheets of dried, smoked beef.
And I -- briefly -- considered asking how mouse jerky compares with deer,
elk, or cow jerky. :-)
Rich
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Nat Taylor
2018-10-31 02:53:55 UTC
Permalink
One solution might be to install synergy, and use one mouse for both. You
can set it up so if you drag the mouse off the right of the laptop screen,
and have it go onto the desktop screen. https://symless.com/synergy
Post by Ben Koenig
If anyone really wants to dig into the causes of RF interference, here is a
fun read
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.pdf
The description of a "jerky mouse" is actually very common in technical
support. What the user perceives as intermittent drop outs are typically
the result of reduced range.
Without testing I can't say that this is the problem John is having but ...
It is *extremely* common. What happens is that a USB3 capable device (any
device) will introduce RF interference on the 2.4 and 2.5GHz bands. All
USB3 ports, cables, and devices are buzzing with this noise, proportional
to the amount of data being transferred over the connection.
So a mouse with a range of 10ft will often drop to half of that, or less,
when another USB device is in use. The "Jerky mouse" occurs when the
mousepad is sitting on the edge of this range. Move too far to the right...
disappears. Move to the left, it speeds up. as you wiggle your hand trying
to make it move, the mouse repeatedly disappears and re-appears to its
wireless controller.
You don't need to build a faraday cage because Intel already did, and the
results are (IMO) fascinating.
Post by Rich Shepard
Post by t***@wescottdesign.com
I know that this comment is the essence of thread drift, but you need
to
Post by Rich Shepard
Post by t***@wescottdesign.com
be careful with your titles. I've spent the evening being distracted of
thoughts of a mouse built out of thin sheets of dried, smoked beef.
And I -- briefly -- considered asking how mouse jerky compares with deer,
elk, or cow jerky. :-)
Rich
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Nat Taylor
2018-10-31 02:56:22 UTC
Permalink
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynergyHowto
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Synergy
etc... its in all the repos I think...
Post by Nat Taylor
One solution might be to install synergy, and use one mouse for both. You
can set it up so if you drag the mouse off the right of the laptop screen,
and have it go onto the desktop screen. https://symless.com/synergy
Post by Ben Koenig
If anyone really wants to dig into the causes of RF interference, here is a
fun read
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.pdf
The description of a "jerky mouse" is actually very common in technical
support. What the user perceives as intermittent drop outs are typically
the result of reduced range.
Without testing I can't say that this is the problem John is having but ...
It is *extremely* common. What happens is that a USB3 capable device (any
device) will introduce RF interference on the 2.4 and 2.5GHz bands. All
USB3 ports, cables, and devices are buzzing with this noise, proportional
to the amount of data being transferred over the connection.
So a mouse with a range of 10ft will often drop to half of that, or less,
when another USB device is in use. The "Jerky mouse" occurs when the
mousepad is sitting on the edge of this range. Move too far to the right...
disappears. Move to the left, it speeds up. as you wiggle your hand trying
to make it move, the mouse repeatedly disappears and re-appears to its
wireless controller.
You don't need to build a faraday cage because Intel already did, and the
results are (IMO) fascinating.
Post by Rich Shepard
Post by t***@wescottdesign.com
I know that this comment is the essence of thread drift, but you need
to
Post by Rich Shepard
Post by t***@wescottdesign.com
be careful with your titles. I've spent the evening being distracted
of
Post by Rich Shepard
Post by t***@wescottdesign.com
thoughts of a mouse built out of thin sheets of dried, smoked beef.
And I -- briefly -- considered asking how mouse jerky compares with deer,
elk, or cow jerky. :-)
Rich
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
_______________________________________________
PLUG mailing list
http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
John Jason Jordan
2018-10-30 04:56:37 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 19:14:10 -0700
Post by King Beowulf
Post by John Jason Jordan
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:31:47 -0700
Post by Jason Barnett
In my experience, this type of problem has always been either a low
battery in the mouse, or RF interference.
Try a wired mouse. If it still jerks then it is a computer/software
issue, if it works fine then it is likely an RF issue.
At this point it just has to be an RF problem. Unfortunately, I do
not have a wired mouse to test with, but I discovered something else
that sort of proves that it is RF interference: Both mice are
Logitech M185 mice Part# 8100C5234, so I just turned off the one
connected to the laptop, et voilà! The mouse connected to the
desktop started working perfectly.
Did you just turn off the laptop mouse or also unplug the laptop
transceiver? This sounds like the desktop transceiver is connecting to
the laptop mouse as well as the desktop mouse.
I don't know what is connecting to what, but you led me to what I think
will ultimately be the solution.
Post by King Beowulf
I can't tell from the Logitech M185 product page if the nano
transceiver is one of the 'unified' types. Does is have an orange
square pattern on the transceiver?
1. If unified, see if you can find ltunify for your distro
https://lekensteyn.nl/logitech-unifying.html#ltunify
This may allow setting up the transceivers so that they only "see" one
particular mouse.
2. If not, you have 2 transceivers sending on the same 2.4GHz band.
One of the devices has to go. Try a different mouse make/model, or go
wired for the desktop
3. Build a small Faraday cage for the laptop. Unfortunately this is
also block network wifi (a security feature!).
OK, first no Faraday cage. That would just interfere too much with my
pursuit of karma. :)

Second, the M185 receiver does not have an orange square pattern on its
transceiver.

Third, I looked for ltunify, but the link above took me to a page with
instructions for installing from source, and glancing through them I
concluded that it was doubtful that it could be done, at least not
easily. But that led me to fire up Synaptic and search on 'Logitech,'
which turned up a couple of possibilities: logitech-applet and solaar.
The former can only change the resolution from the default 400cpi to
800cpi. But Solaar is for pairing and unpairing.

I was on the laptop when I did this, so I installed Solaar and launched
it. It has a very minimal GUI display, and when I say 'minimal' I mean
it displayed nothing. Eventually I figured out that the display was
empty because it failed to find the M185 attached to the laptop. This
did not surprise me because the M185 transceiver lacked the orange
rectangle, and because I paid $10 for it at Wally World. Ya gets what
ya pays for, I guess. :(

So then I installed Solaar on the desktop, and got the same results.
But I have a couple other wireless USB mice around here, so I grabbed
one - an M325, whose transceiver has the orange rectangle - plugged it
in, and there it was in the Solaar display. And, while it appears in
the Solaar display on the desktop, it does not appear in the Solaar
display on the desktop.

On the desktop I could use Solaar to unpair the mouse, but that would
surely deactivate it, so that is not a good idea. A better idea would
be to buy a replacement for the M185 still in use on the laptop, one
whose transceiver has the orange rectangle.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction to a solution. :)
King Beowulf
2018-10-30 06:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Jason Jordan
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 19:14:10 -0700
Post by John Jason Jordan
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:31:47 -0700
..snip...
Post by John Jason Jordan
Second, the M185 receiver does not have an orange square pattern on its
transceiver.
Third, I looked for ltunify, but the link above took me to a page with
instructions for installing from source, and glancing through them I
concluded that it was doubtful that it could be done, at least not
easily. But that led me to fire up Synaptic and search on 'Logitech,'
which turned up a couple of possibilities: logitech-applet and solaar.
The former can only change the resolution from the default 400cpi to
800cpi. But Solaar is for pairing and unpairing.
I had forgotten about Solaar. yes, it'll be easier to use than ltunify.
Post by John Jason Jordan
So then I installed Solaar on the desktop, and got the same results.
But I have a couple other wireless USB mice around here, so I grabbed
one - an M325, whose transceiver has the orange rectangle - plugged it
in, and there it was in the Solaar display. And, while it appears in
the Solaar display on the desktop, it does not appear in the Solaar
display on the desktop.
On the desktop I could use Solaar to unpair the mouse, but that would
surely deactivate it, so that is not a good idea. A better idea would
be to buy a replacement for the M185 still in use on the laptop, one
whose transceiver has the orange rectangle.
Thanks for pointing me in the direction to a solution. :)
All you need to do is replace EITHER the laptop mouse OR the desktop
mouse with the unifying receiver version controllable with Solaar over
the USB port (Solar won't reach out to any receiver elsewhere). The
nano receiver and unifying receiver speak different dialects so can't
understand each other and therefore shouldn't interfere even though they
are on the same 2.4GHz band. At least I've not have issues, YMMV.

Or is you wan a nice new mouse, go ahead and nab one one.

There is one caveat to the unifying receiver: make sure you get a newish
version with the patched firmware (mouse jacking exploit), or you can
flash it yourself. The attacker has to be fairly close (not quite in
your lap...) but its better to be safe when in public areas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Unifying_receiver

-Ed
a***@clueserver.org
2018-09-28 18:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Jason Jordan
The mouse on my desktop (less than a year old) is a Logitech M185
wireless USB mouse. It jerks, and extremely slowly, that is, you move
it and nothing happens for a couple minutes. And when it does finally
move it's not exactly where you wanted it, so repeat the operation. It
can take ten minutes to click on something, and the clicks are also very
slow.
o Swapping the mouse with another identical mouse known
to be working fine, including a brand new one.
o Moving the USB receiver gizmo to different USB ports
I also opened Task Manager and note that nothing is taking more than a
couple percent of the CPU and almost all of the 16GB of RAM is free.
There also appears to be no disk activity.
Have you tried cleaning the optics?


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